‎”Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.” 1 Samuel 15:22

(Although the following Facebook conversation is real – verbatim – names have been changed to protect the idiotic!)

Wordwurst More absolute meaningless gibberish! It is better to obey ‘whom’? And what sacrifice are you referring to? If god told me to kill my child, Samuel is saying that it would be better to obey than sacrifice? Sacrifice what? My child? I’ve heard mentally retarded children make more sense. What kind of sick, twisted mind can understand/believe in this Samuel asshole? Oh, I get it! Just mindlessly obey because if you try to understand you’re brain just turns to mush! It is better to hearken than the fat of rams? WTF?!

Charmley Context – Saul, Israel’s king under God, was given a specific order. He disobeyed and thought that he could cover it up by religious acts. One sentence taken from a speech is indeed rather difficult to understand. Put it in the context of I…srael in the period, and it makes sense. What is being said is that you should not think that God is pleased with you just because you’re going to Church when you’re also doing wicked things. Application: if you are fiddling the books, your going to Church will not make God pleased with you!

Wordwurst Which god?

Charmley Come on, this is a Bible quote, which do you think?

Wordwurst I believe only in the Luscious Lesbian Leprechaun goddess – the giant babe that gave birth to this whole universe. I have a book that tells the whole story. The bible is just made up.

Trevor  Is this guy for real or is he just a joke?

Wordwurst That’s exactly what I used to think when told about Jesus!

Trevor  Demonstrates Romans 1.

Richardson Certainly Wordwurst wouldn’t believe the only sufficient rule of faith, what arrogant apostate would?

Wordwurst Faith is a crutch for those who cannot face reality. Believing in things you have no proof for! Deluding yourselves with your fairy-tales. And then, if that wasn’t bad enough, spreading it like a virus to others. Now – that’s arrogant. To hell with faith. Give me truth!

Trevor  What is described is not faith but credulity. Faith, biblical faith, has specific content. Without that content it isn’t faith. You may object to the content, but slander, misrepresentation and mockery are not refutations, mere cant.

Wordwurst Can! Calling the truths I’m pointing out about your harmful and silly dogma slander, misrepresentation and mockery does not distract from the fact that people who believe in made-up, baseless superstitions, are deluded fools – like politicians – giving empty promises, telling lies to protect their guise… living quiet desperation lives! Let me ask you a serious question and see if you can answer straightforwardly, okay? What will happen to me when I die, based upon your ‘book’?

Trevor  I suspect you know the answer to your own question! Reading through your missives it is evident you merely engage in sneering without actually having a rational, intelligent, reasonable argument. What you need to do is ask what does Christianity teach. Then ask, does it stack up with Scripture. Then proceed to challenge from your own unbelief. Thus far it’s just what I said – mere cant and nothing more.

Baptist Church Dear Wordwurst, the wonderful thing about the word of God is that it is so clear about this question of what happens after death. If I believe in the Son of God I will enter eternal bliss. If not, eternal hell. Thank God, by his grace I will one day see him and be like him for I shall see him as he truly is! I pray you will be there too! Mark.

WW Thanks for answering. So, if I can not believe in this particular god of yours, he will banish me to eternal torture. Do you think that is moral?

Baptist Church If you had a dog and it never did what you wanted it to do and it started to bite your children, would it be morally acceptable to get rid of the dog?

WW I’ll be happy to answer any of your questions after I get clear about where you’re coming from. If I cannot believe in your god, do you think it is moral that I punished eternally for a finite crime? Do you think I deserve that? In your opinion, is it moral?

Trevor  So, you didn’t answer the question. Same old same old. Whinge, complain, mock and sneer, but not answer the question. The reality is, you cannot account for anything. You begin with the presupposition that authority rests entirely with you. …In your closed box you see nothing, hear nothing, your ‘discoveries’ and reasoning are all within that closed box. The Christian by contrast has a different presupposition. Using the previous illustration- the lid is open to let in the light. Yours is the closed mind, the Christian has the open mind. What you need to do is to repent for your sins.

Baptist Church WW, It is of no relevance where I am coming from. Your question was, what does the Bible say? I told you. You say you “cannot believe”. But is it not the truth that you do not want to believe? I do not know what you deserve. I am not your judge. I know that I only deserve hell apart from the grace of God in Jesus Christ. The call of the gospel is there for all who will hear it. May the Lord open your heart to his truth for his mercies sake. Mark.

WW Why do you continue to sidestep my simple question? What you need – if you want to continue this conversation – is to answer my question. Same old dodging the questions I always get from arrogant gits like yourself. You’re the one beginning… and continuing with presuppositions and I am seeking to understand. I’ll ask you once more and we’ll both know what’s happening if you are to frightened again to answer. If I cannot believe in your god, do you think it is moral that I punished eternally for a finite crime? Do you think I deserve that? In your opinion, is it moral? You claim that you don’t know what happens to me if I cannot believe in your god. You lying sack of crap! You know damn well what your contradictory book says. You’re just too scared to go down this road of inquiry with me because you know where its going and you’ll do anything to avoid it – like continue to to talk nonsense. What a coward!

Baptist Church To answer simply, Yes!!! Any crime against God is not considered finite. “Unless you repent you will all likewise perish” But I am sure you know the answer already!!

WW And do YOU think it is right/just/moral for any human being to be tortured in eternity for the finite ‘sin’ of not being able to believe in ‘god’?

Baptist Church I already answered that question. You need to read more carefully. Or maybe nothing that I would say would satisfy you? Why do you waste your time with people like me if you think I am so useless?

WW It’s not the same question. If you read more carefully, you’d see that. The difference is – do YOU think it is righ/just/moral. The truthful answer would satisfy me. And is it not you who is beginning to feel he is wasting his time with me… thinking you cannot convert me?

(after much time)

WW Yeah, I thought you’d both bail when the questions got difficult. ARBC – you are a bad parrot. Trevor, you are a simpleton prancing around behind what you think are cleverly constructed sentences. Being gay, how do you reconcile the bible’s insistence that homosexuals are an abomination? You should be out of the closet and out in the community helping other people like yourself to be proud of who they are – of what their parents and evolution made them. Lennon was right: god is a concept by which we measure our pain. Trevor, you must be in hell already. You need any help just let me know, kay? Now, enough of both your foolishness! See if you can speak for the next 48 hours without parroting your scriptures or mentioning god once. Betcha can’t! Brainwashed zombies have better thinking / reading / concentrating skills than the two of you put together! If that’s what being a christian is (a follower! – who wants to be a follower anyway? sheeple?) you can count me out. I lead and create my own path, thankyouverymuch! :0) ToodlePip!

Trevor  Your blurb is, sadly, like yourself, confused. Which is why you never actually answer anything. You merely throw invective because you have nothing. You raise the strange issue of sodomy. It is wicked and contrary to the faith. See Romans 1….Until you repent your thinking will remain irrational.

WW Sidesteppin’, pussyfootin’, the old soft shoe! You’re a wonderful little dancer, Trev – did you know that? If you find anything about my blurb confusing it is because your damaged/brainwashed mind is what is confused and in a state of delus…ion. I will, as I already said (what, you got a poor memory too?) happily answer any questions after you answer mine. If you are too much of a wallflower to do so, just admit it and you can give up. Otherwise, why not pretend to be a man and answer… mmmkay? (PS: You raise the issue of me raising the issue of sodomy… no, not really. I raised the issue that your filthy book asks for homosexuals like yourself to be put to death for being what god made them. How f*&^$d up is that? Even though suffering a deep and dark repression, do you really think the homosexuals god made – since he made everything – should have to be tortured for eternity for their finite crime? I mean, you actually claim to go along with that and think it is moral and just?) So, there you have it – the same question again, in another form. Answer if you can. Recant if you can’t!

Trevor  Phew. Let me repeat myself clearly.
1. Scripture lays down the way if salvation
2. That is the path we are to take
3. It’s ethics we are to follow
Your innuendos are false. Period

WW Yes, please, try to be clear this time.
1. Yes, but is it morally right?
2. Says who? The morons who wrote the book full of idiocy and contradictions? Talking snakes, man living in the belly of a whale, an all powerful god who cannot fight iron?
3. Who’s ethics? Those of the cretins who wrote the most hateful and dreadful book of all time? Worse than the Koran?
You’re presuppositions are built on bullshit. Full stop!
When are you going to stop being a sheep and think for yourself and stand up for who you really are, proud and with a straight spine? Stop letting down your side, Trev, they need you and you could really help… if you only had the guts. :0(

Trevor  I do not know what you mean. Clearly you are getting worked up- hence the expletives. Your duty now is to repent of your sin. Believe the gospel. Turn from sin. Cast off the unfruitful works of darkness and sin.

WW It’s no good talking to you, is it? You are like a broken record: repent, repent… how boring. Even if I could believe in your made up god (which I can no more do than believe in Santa) I would choose to give him the finger anyway. Satan is more noble and profound than the Abrahamic god – who’s kill count is astronomical compared to the devils! You think this is love and mercy – you keep it, if you like that sort of thing. Me, I would gladly spend eternity with Satan than with your god who would have me worshipping him all day! What a sad and pathetic little creature with a poor self-image and an out of control ego!

Baptist Church WW, I do not mind any argument you want to use but if you continue to use offensive and rude language I will have to delete you from my friends list. Please keep things at some level of decency. Mark.

WW Honestly, BC, I do not know what you mean. What offensive or rude langauage are you referring to? If you choose to interpret my words that way – well, that’s your right, I guess. For what its worth, I find your way of communicating to be …ignorant – but I don’t let it offend me. I am responsible for my feelings, not you. If you want to stick to the conversation and answer the question, let’s move on. If you want to use ‘being offended’ to take your ball home, so be it. What’s with the constant threats? ‘You’re going to go to hell!’, ‘I’m going to delete you’… ? Can’t you just stick to the discussion?

Baptist Church You are the one who brought up the whole issue of where do I think you are going when you die. Are you that worried about it? You must be I think.

Wordwurst Why would I be worried to return to the place I came? Black, unconscious nothingness. Peace. No fear. No pain. What I simply would like to know is do you think it is moral or just for me or anyone to burn for eternity for not believing in the god you promote? It’s a pretty simple question… ;0)

Baptist Church Yes, I do!!

WW Well, then that’s that. If you believe that, there’s something seriously wrong with you. No finite crime deserves infinite torture. The fact that you believe it does… what does that tell you? I mean, you’re saying that even if your very own child could not get him/herself to believe in this all merciful god, you’d agree that would be grounds for her eternal suffering. As a therapist, I would advise you to seek a professional. Imagine, as a result of not knowing your own moral compass, you will be steered by that of a ‘someone’ else you’ve heard tell of from people you’ve never met. If you do have children, I hope you don’t try to persuade them that that’s a good lesson for life. Only those who are morally bereft can cling to the disgusting morals written in a book by superstitious nincompoops!

Baptist Church Your use of the term “finite” is misleading. It is not the duration of the sin but the one to whom it offends that counts. If I murder someone in a moment of time I am worthy of death as a result. The gravity of all sin is that it is committed against an infinite and eternal God. My confidence is in the justice and mercy of this unchanging God. As Abraham said: “Shall not the judge of all the earth do right?”

WW Seriously, I don’t give a flying f*&k at a rolling donut what Abraham said. I know what’s right and wrong and don’t need you or any badly written book to tell me otherwise. If you need it, so be it.

‎© 2010 Wordwurst

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